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Poster: LordOfTheExacto Date: Aug 10, 2006 11:13am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

The new one works. Thanks!

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Poster: AlecWest Date: Aug 10, 2006 12:47pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

Again, sorry I did the switcheroo - but I was getting no meaningful help from the Archive. So, I took the bull by the horns and just re-uploaded it into the new directory - telling them afterward to just delete the old one (which they did).

FWIW, on PD films, here's a peculiarity. From 1949-1952, Republic Pictures released 3 "rocketman" serials. The first was "King of the Rocket Men," the second was "Zombies of the Stratosphere," and the third was "Radar Men From the Moon." Over a year ago, I noticed that only the most recent of the three serials were online at the archive. And, it still is, starting here:

http://www.archive.org/details/radarmen1

Since I had the other two earlier serials, I uploaded them. And about a month later, they both "vanished" from the archive. I asked Archive support why. They said copyright concerns ... but never did give me an explanation as to why the most RECENT serial was public domain but the two EARLIER serials were not.

Sometimes, I think Archive support people don't REALLY check out copyright claims too thoroughly ... and that complaints of copyright come primarily from entrepreneurs who worry over losing money from selling their DVDs. In short, I suspect the majority of copyright complaints received by the Archive are invalid.

FWIW, "If I Had A Million" (the 1932 film) is NOT copyrighted. I just did a LOCIS search and the 12 entries under that title have nothing to do with the 1932 film. So, if they take it down, I'm going to fire off DAILY emails to the Archive to ask why.

Also, I just did LOCIS searches on all the rocketman serials, too. The only one that shows up is "Zombies of the Stratosphere." Even there, there may be an "issue" with its validity. The Republic Pictures that exists today is NOT THE SAME COMPANY as the Republic Pictures of yesteryear. There was a lapse between use of the company name ... when it was out of business ... and no indication that any rights were transferred in any legal way to its "new management."

But, I just might "re-upload" KING OF THE ROCKET MEN ... and challenge the Archive to show me a LOCIS record - because I can't find one.

This post was modified by AlecWest on 2006-08-10 19:47:14

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Poster: GirdwoodTelevision Date: Aug 11, 2006 12:57pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

Hi,

Skip looked up it up for us, and it is still under copyright:

"If I Had A Million" was renewed on Dec 7, 1959. The renewal record is R247311. This information is not on LOCIS but is at the Library of Congress.

It's been taken down.

Alexis

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Poster: AlecWest Date: Aug 11, 2006 1:12pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

When will the copyright expire on "If I Had A Million?"

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Aug 11, 2006 1:33pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

Is this the formula?
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15t.html#copyrights

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Poster: AlecWest Date: Aug 11, 2006 1:37pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

Yes it is, thank you.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Aug 10, 2006 4:20pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

I don't know anything about radarmen1, but this thread appears to cover a couple other items you mentioned:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=39213

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Poster: AlecWest Date: Aug 10, 2006 6:42pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

I dare "Skip" (the guy who said KING OF THE ROCKET MEN wasn't PD) to show me the LOCIS record at the copyright office. If it was taken down based on a complaint, I'll bet it was taken down based on the complaint of an entrepreneur who sells DVDs of that film - a complaint that wasn't followed up on with a valid LOCIS search.

By the way, KING OF THE ROCKET MEN was never taken down. Only the "details" page was deleted. The MPEG files still exist - though "permissions" were changed to disallow downloads:

http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap01.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap02.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap03.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap04.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap05.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap06.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap07.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap08.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap09.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap10.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap11.mpeg
http://ia311507.us.archive.org/2/items/King_of_the_Rocket_Men_1949/king_chap12.mpeg

The details page merely says there were "issues" with the film but still gives links to the HTTP and FTP directories. There is also a link to send an error report. I'm going to do that - and ask the Archive, specifically, why it was taken down (since LOCIS has no record of an existing copyright on the film).

This post was modified by AlecWest on 2006-08-11 01:42:04

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Aug 10, 2006 7:31pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

Don't know if it applies here, but FWIW Skip has noted shortcomings in the db you might've consulted:
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=22010

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2006-08-11 02:31:06

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Poster: AlecWest Date: Aug 10, 2006 8:27pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

It will be interesting to see how Archive support replies. The big bugaboo is if KING OF THE ROCKET MEN shows up on the "superlist" he mentions. Problem? Was it copyrighted by the "old" Republic Pictures or the "new" Republic Pictures? There was a gap between when the old studio went belly-up and when a new group of entrepreneurs bought the rights to use their name and logo (trademark rights). However, if a copyright is registered under a company name and the company goes belly-up, do they legally have a right to "transfer" that right to a new company?

This is the real bugaboo. If (and I'm not saying they did) Republic Pictures copyrighted the serial in 1949, the 28 years would expire in 1977. In theory, copyright existing in 1973 were anointed with life plus 50 years protection. But if the copyright holder was the company ... and the company died in the early 60s ... well, you can see what I'm getting at. Can a new company exercise rights pre-existing with a "dead" company ... a company that died prior to the 1973 rule? If not, then copyright protection on KING OF THE ROCKET MEN ended in 1977.

Wish I was a lawyer ... almost (grin).

P.S. Skip said the "Superlists" are expensive and hard to find. Logically, one place it would exist is the Library of Congress. I wonder why, of all things, they haven't digitized these superlists. They're digitizing everything else. That would seem to be the prime target for digitizing - to end conflicts before they start by having them available for search online.

I'm fortunate to live in a metropolitan area with a good library system ... and have put the copyright/PD question to them for both KING OF THE ROCKET MEN and IF I HAD A MILLION. I'll let you know when and if they respond.

This post was modified by AlecWest on 2006-08-11 03:27:39

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Poster: A/V Geek Skip Date: Aug 11, 2006 8:29am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

A better question for the Library of Congress might be "when are they going to digitize the registrations and renewals before 1978". That information is where the Film Superlists are drawn.

First two Rocketman series were renewed (King of the Rocketmen in 1976, R645401, R645406, R645411; Zombies - see LOCIS records below), the last wasn't. I don't know why the last one wasn't, but when looking at film series, some films get renewed and some don't - maybe because it was a mistake or a particular film wasn't so lucrative.

Alec, I do copyright searches on a volunteer basis for the Internet Archive. It cost $150/hr to have the Copyright Office make such searches. I'm doing this because I want public domain films to be freely available to the public. But I also want to make sure that we aren't posting anything that is still under copyright (even though I have A LOT of problems with the copyright laws).

I've never received a request by any DVD producer to take films down. I go to LOCIS and if it doesn't have the info, I look to the Film Superlists or elsewhere for foreign titles. I don't enjoy having folks material taken down which is why, I ask that they contact me first so I can check before all the time and energy is wasted.

------------------------------

Registration Number: RE-67-072
Title: Zombies of the stratosphere. Episodes no. 7-12. By aRepublic Productions, Inc.
Claimant: Repix, Inc. (a wholly-owned subsidiary of National Telefilm Associates, Inc.) (PWH)
Effective Registration Date: 6Oct80
Original Registration Date: 2Jul52;
Original Registration Number: LP2099.
Original Class: L

Registration Number: RE-67-073
Title: Zombies of the stratosphere. Episodes no. 1-6. By aRepublic Productions, Inc.
Claimant: Repix, Inc. (a wholly-owned subsidiary of National Telefilm Associates, Inc.) (PWH)
Effective Registration Date: 6Oct80
Original Registration Date: 2Jul52;
Original Registration Number: LP1989.
Original Class: L

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Poster: elizabeth townsend gard Date: Sep 5, 2007 12:14am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

What process or steps do you use to determine when a work is in the public domain?

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Poster: AlecWest Date: Aug 11, 2006 11:40am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

Skip,

First, let me say that it's obvious I've been ranting about something you know much more about ... and that my suppositions were flawed. I apologize if you took offense.

One question, though. If KING OF THE ROCKET MAN is copyrighted, and if the Archive knew it was copyrighted over a year ago, why do the files still exist on Archive space? They might be protected by "permissions" ... but the files are still there.

You wrote: "King of the Rocketmen in 1976, R645401, R645406, R645411;..."

According to the Copyright Office, records are assigned one of nine possible 2-or-3 letter prefixes - PA, PAU, RE, SR, SRU, TX, TXU, VA, VAU. Did the single-letter prefixes you just mentioned come from a "superlist?"

You wrote: "the last wasn't."

Well, actually it was. RADAR MEN FROM THE MOON, the serial currently online at the Archive, merely had its name changed by Republic Pictures. They turned the 12-chapter serial into a 12-episode TV series titled:

COMMANDO CODY - SKY MARSHALL OF THE UNIVERSE

The copyright record numbers are RE88812-RE88825 (with a few numbers missing in between). It's on LOCIS, last recorded in 1981.

But please don't take it down if no one has complained (grin).

You wrote: "I ask that they contact me first so I can check before all the time and energy is wasted."

Perhaps the create page should be changed, then, so uploaders can first submit the basic information on the title to be uploaded ... so it can be checked first, as you say, instead of encouraging people to upload (as the page currently does) only to disappoint some later. This would seem the prudent thing to do since most people only have access to LOCIS (and not the superlists). And sometimes, even LOCIS can provide conflicting data.

Example. Recently, I checked LOCIS for the title, "The Dark At the Top of the Stairs," the 1960 film starring Robert Preston and Dorothy McGuire. LOCIS showed no record so (sigh) I uploaded the film:

http://www.archive.org/details/TheDarkAtTheTopOfTheStairs

Later, after some discussion with others about LOCIS, I did a second search ... this time, removing the first "The" in the title. And sure enough, there it was. Oddly, the copyright record (RE381047, 1988) is listed as "The Dark At the Top of the Stairs" ... but it can only be found in a search for "Dark At the Top of the Stairs."

I sent an "error" report, telling them I found a copyright record ... but never got an autoreply back from it. So, I'm wondering if they got the report. Anyway, it's still online and should not be.

This post was modified by AlecWest on 2006-08-11 18:40:05

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffRick Prelinger Date: Aug 11, 2006 6:16pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

Before 1978, the Copyright Office numbered renewals in the "R" series. When the 1976 Copyright Act took effect (on 1 Jan 1978), they switched to the new prefixes that Alec cites.

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Poster: AlecWest Date: Aug 11, 2006 11:02pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

Thank you, Rick. This has been quite an education. My local library has both "Film Superlist" books. On my next day off, I think I'll pay them a visit and have a look-see.

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Poster: A/V Geek Skip Date: Aug 11, 2006 2:17pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Issues with items content?

It could be that the renewals were 'RE'and 'R' was a shorthand.

I guess that "COMMANDO CODY - SKY MARSHALL OF THE UNIVERSE" would be considered a new work based on older material. It has a new title, probably was edited down a little, maybe new music and intertitles, etc. I'm a layman, so I'm not an authority.

Titles can be a problem on LOCIS, especially when a film is part of a series and is listed by the individual chapter name.

I'll pass your suggestions regarding the create page on to the IA folks.

Honestly, we are both on the same team here and I appreciate your (and others) devotion to getting the stuff online. We just have to play by the rules (even though they seem quite unfair).

Skip